German election: Chancellor Scholz debates CDU rival Merz – DW (English)

February 9, 2025

DW Fact check: Is Germany Ukraine’s biggest supporter in Europe?

The claim: German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said “Germany is the biggest supporter of Ukraine in Europe and will remain so.”

The facts: According to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, Germany does rank in second place behind the United States in terms of total bilateral aid to Ukraine.

From the beginning of 2022 until October last year, Germany’s support amounted to nearly €16 billion ($16.5 billion), compared to €88 billion from the United States.

But support can also be understood differently. When analyzing the number of tanks, infantry vehicles or rocket systems allocated to Ukraine, Germany is further down the list, according to the Kiel Institute.

However, as far as air defense systems are concerned, Germany has delivered the most, with 27 such weapons. The US has delivered 18.

Support for Ukraine can also be understood in terms of Ukrainian migrants that have been welcomed by countries around the world. In absolute numbers, Germany hosts the highest number of beneficiaries of temporary protection from Ukraine in the EU, according to European statistics as of November 2024.

But relative to the population, the highest ratios were observed in other EU countries such as Czech Republic, Poland, Estonia and Latvia.

Whether Germany remains Ukraine’s biggest supporter, as Scholz claims, is something that will depend on the outcome of the upcoming federal election.

February 9, 2025

Debate between Chancellor Scholz and conservative candidate Merz ends

After debating for some 90 minutes, Chancellor Olaf Scholz and the favorite for the future German chancellor, Friedrich Merz, have wrapped up their on air-clash with two weeks to go before the election.

February 9, 2025

Merz hints at cutting public services to boost defense spending

Saim Dušan Inayatullah

Scholz called for Germany to dedicate at least 2% of its GDP to defense over the next four years, while his rival, Friedrich Merz, said that he preferred a figure of 3%.

The chancellor said that Berlin will only be able to increase defense spending if it removes the debt brake.

Merz said that Germany needs to be “way above 2%,” but would first need to “get to 2% step by step.”

He said that Germany could dedicate more funds to defense with more growth in a “strong economy,” saying that the debate was stuck around “static” numbers.

Merz said he would “reprioritize items of our budget,” saying that Germany could “reduce subsidies” and “take a look at public services and … the number of people working there.”

February 9, 2025

How will Germany deal with Trump?

Moderators pointed to US President Donald Trump often erratic behavior in office, then asked Merz if he still believed the US president was “predictable,” as he had said in the past. 

“Well, he is predictably unpredictable,” Merz replied. 

“It’s important for us, on this side of the Atlantic, to be united,” he said. He noted how Denmark’s Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen was “very concerned” by Trump’s comments on Greenland, and said he’d discussed this with her last week. 

“We need a joint European strategy,” Merz said.

He said that Europe together was a more populous area than the US, with comparable economic strength, and that if maintaining a united front, it should be possible to reach amicable and mutually beneficial agreements. 

Scholz, meanwhile, said he would deal with Trump the same as he did in the past.

“The strategy I’ve already used, clear words and friendly conversations,” he said.

He stressed Germany’s desire to work with the US, but said “we mustn’t kid ourselves.”

“What the US president says, he means,” Scholz said, adding he believed it was important to stand up to Trump. Scholz also said he was the first European leader to say that proposing a takeover of Greenland was out of order.

February 9, 2025

DW Fact check: Has there never been a three-year recession in Germany?

The claim: Friedrich Merz said “we are in the third year of a recession. This has never happened before in Germany”

The facts: Helena Melnikov, managing director at the German Chamber of Commerce and Industry, said in an analysis published in January that three consecutive years without growth would be a first since World War II.

“This… shows the historic challenge that politics and business are facing together,” she said.

The Federation of German Industries (BDI) echoed the sentiment in its predictions for the German economy in 2025.

A look at historical data published by Germany’s Federal Statistical Office (Destatis) backs this information.

The state of the German economy is one of the main topics of the current political campaign.

February 9, 2025

How to protect Ukraine? Should it join NATO?

Both Scholz and Merz voiced hope for peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine amid Donald Trump taking charge in the US. 

Scholz said it “remains to be seen” if peace can be achieved in Ukraine after US President Donald Trump took office.

“It would be very good if this war were to end,” he said.

Scholz defended his stance on not providing longer-range cruise missiles to Ukraine, saying this was a step Germany should not support. He accused Merz of flip-flopping on the issue, previously supporting the idea, though Merz disputed this. 

Asked if Ukraine should join NATO, Merz said “they can’t do that.” 

“Because NATO doesn’t accept members who are currently in a war,” Merz said. At the same time, he said giving Ukraine EU candidate status was the “right thing to do,” and indicated that entering the European Union would give Ukraine “significantly more security.” He made no reference to the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO after the war is over. 

Scholz said Ukrainian membership in NATO wasn’t “happening any time soon” as the US had rejected the proposal.

February 9, 2025

Scholz: ‘If you earn 3 million you can pay a bit more in taxes’

Both Merz, who spent decades in business and banking during his political timeout, and former Finance Minister Scholz fancy themselves as economic specialists. 

Merz argued that lower taxes would spur growth rather than scare people away to tax havens like Switzerland, and would leave the government better off than if it taxed too aggressively. 

The conservative politician said that income tax is “not only paid by the rich.”

“It is also being paid by individual business people, retailers, companies,” he said. “It is being paid by hundreds of thousands of companies who pay income taxes instead of corporation taxes.”

But Scholz retorted by saying that both he and Merz should both pay more taxes.

“People earn even more than you and me should also pay more taxes,” he said, addressing Merz. “I’m just saying if you earn 3 million you can pay a bit more in taxes, and you don’t think that’s true, and that’s the difference between us.”

February 9, 2025

Scholz points to his government raising minimum wage

Scholz called for Germany to implement a €15 ($15.5) minimum wage.

He said that he was “proud” of his government’s measure to raise the minimum wage to €12 in 2022.

“So many people earned so little,” he said, adding that the “low-wage sector” had “shrunk” under his government.

Merz said that Scholz had promised that the minimum wage hike to €12 would be a “one-off” decision.

February 9, 2025

‘Trump’s plan for Gaza, what do you make of that?’

The two politicians also broadly agreed on the rejection of Donald Trump’s proposal for the US to take over and redevelop Gaza.

Scholz described US President Donald Trump’s plan to turn the Gaza Strip into the “Riviera of the Middle East” as a “scandal” given the extent of destruction and suffering there. 

“This goes against international law, it’s shocking,” he said.

Merz said that he agreed. However, he cautioned that the proposal was one of several “irritating” ideas floated by the returning US president where “we have to wait and see what is being meant seriously.”

He said it could prove wise to exercise patience as Trump’s new terms continues.

February 9, 2025

What about Germany’s notoriously unreliable rail operator?

Chancellor Scholz said that his government had freed up “billions” to improve Germany’s rail network and the Deutsche Bahn national railway company.

“We are going to renovate all of it,” he said.

Merz said that the rail grid needed to remain in government hands, but “competition” could also operate on the rail network.

Scholz accused Merz of wanting to “take apart” Deutsche Bahn and privatize it.

February 9, 2025

Where do candidates stand on taxes?

Merz criticized Scholz’s planned 10% tax incentive, saying that the SPD was implementing policies of “higher debt, higher expenditure.”

He said that the plan would be a “flash in the pan that [would] cost a lot of money.”

Scholz said he was against Merz’s proposal of “tax reductions for all,” arguing Berlin didn’t have the budget for it.

“This goes against the overwhelming majority of our citizens,” he said.

“If a company, according to the [Merz’s] suggestion … pays slightly less tax and then they invest abroad, we have gained nothing,” he said. Scholz said the tax burden should be eased for lower earners, including dropping the VAT on food.

February 9, 2025

‘What’s going to happen if we have a Bundestag without the FDP?’

A simple enough question, put to both leaders.

What if the struggling neoliberal Free Democrats (FDP) led by Christian Lindner misses the 5% hurdle needed to guarantee parliamentary representation? 

“[The parliament] would be poorer, but viable,” Merz said. 

Scholz smiled, and said that he agreed. 

Lindner served as finance minister in Scholz’s cabinet, but was dismissed in November, leading to the calling of snap elections.

February 9, 2025

Merz questions why Germany’s recovery slow by European standards

Merz tried to hit Scholz on the economy again by questioning why Germany was performing worse than many comparable developed Western countries. 

Scholz retorted that this was largely because Germany, a highly industrialized European power, is more vulnerable to resource and energy prices than many other countries. 

“We are the country with the second highest industrial density among all [in the G7 group of major industrial countries],” he said.

Merz responded that Germany’s shutting down of its nuclear power plants had further exacerbated this issue and added pressure on energy prices domestically.

Scholz meanwhile claimed the nuclear power plants constituted “0.02%” of Germany’s GDP.

The left-leaning chancellor also went on to point out that the decision to decommission the nuclear plants ultimately traced its roots back to his predecessor Angela Merkel of Merz’s CDU.

February 9, 2025

Sluggish German economy next on the docket

Moderators moved on in the end to Germany’s constant flirtation with mild recession in the past three years, asking Olaf Scholz if Germany was goint through deindustrialization.

“The mood is bad, I would agree,” Scholz said. However, he disputed the deindustrialization argument.

“We have a huge number of people in gainful employment,” he stressed.

The incumbent chancellor said inflation was down after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and an unsteady ship had been stabilized, but that more needed to be done going forward. 

Merz disputed this, pointing to jobs and businesses relocating to other countries. 

“And these jobs and money is gone for good, it’s never going to return,” Merz said. He argued Scholz’s assessment had had “nothing to do with the reality.”

February 9, 2025

Immigration and repatriation dominating opening phase

The debate moderator and the two lead candidates have focused the early stages of the debate on migration.

Some 15 minutes into the debate, the main issues under discussion have been either people entering or leaving Germany, or the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany (AfD). 

Scholz called for Germany to build more “deportation centers.”

He said that he had implemented such policies when he served as the mayor of Hamburg.

Scholz said that he “ensured that more people can be in detention custody,” adding that “legal loopholes” had been closed.

Merz said that Scholz’s arguments that he had implemented sufficient migration reforms was a “fairytale.”